dysprositos (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
dysprositos) wrote2009-06-02 03:41 pm
dysprositos) wrote2009-06-02 03:41 pm
Fannish expectations
The conversation over in oliviacirce's posts about the differences between the Scary Ponies Oh No (commonly referred to as "book fandom", "SF fandom", "con-going fandom", and "those fanboys over there") and the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh (a.k.a. "media fandom", "LJ fandom", "us fangirls", and "LJ-centered Western media fandom which reads Metafandom") is spawning all sorts of interesting discussion.
There have been all sorts of distinctions made, among them:
(Note that this is about the overall culture, not individuals by any means. There's far too much overlap for this to be at all a useful metric on the individual level.)
These differences lead to larger differences like the Scary Ponies Oh No dismissing activities, like fanfiction, associated with the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh, often either because it's not being used as a launching point for a career (because the path from consumer to creator is so much a part of Scary Ponies Oh No expectations, if you stop midway, you're not an amateur, you're a failure); because it's perceived as trying to "fix" or, worse, redo canon and is thus an insult to the PTB; because it's a girl thing; or some combination of the preceding.
(Or, just thought of this, the tendency of Scary Ponies Oh No to bring their "squee, not critique" attitude to bear on themselves, so there are a lot of celebrations of fannishness but not so much introspection of what it means to be a Scary Pony Oh No or what needs to be improved or fixed. There tends to be a lot of "what do we do about the graying of fandom" hand-wringing, but also a marked resistance to any kind of change within fandom, without which young people are less likely to be interested. [Have you seen the SFWA website?] And not many discussions of things like sexism, homophobia, racism, and so on within fandom--whenever people do try to bring it up, the reaction of "we're not like that!" or "if we are, it doesn't matter!" or "we are like that and it matters, but there's nothing we can do about it but wait for the Old Guard to die off" is strong. Whereas one of the defining features of the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh is a tendency toward introspection and self-critique; that's what Metafandom is for, after all: discussions of fandom, like this one.)
One of the points I made was
to whichaamcnamara replied
So, lest this question get lost in the larger discussion: what expectations do we (Western media fandom as found on LJ and other journaling services, and united with such communities as Metafandom, Fandom_Wank, Fandom_Secrets, and so on) have of each other that are not related to fandom but that are not expectations we would have for humanity at large?
I'll start, adding to my comment above: I think that we have a tendency to expect each other to have some familiarity (even if only in passing, through reading each other's meta and reaction posts and out-of-fandom fic) with particular source texts that have or had large fandoms, e.g., Xena: Warrior Princess, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel: the Series, Firefly, the Sentinel, the Man From UNCLE, Stargate: Atlantis and Stargate: SG-1, Harry Potter, Doctor Who and Torchwood, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Star Trek, Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, and more recently Merlin, Supernatural, and Dollhouse. Not necessarily be fannish about, not necessarily have seen the canon for, but at least have heard of it and maybe have some knowledge of what it's about, main character names, &c.
oliviacirce's posts about the differences between the Scary Ponies Oh No (commonly referred to as "book fandom", "SF fandom", "con-going fandom", and "those fanboys over there") and the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh (a.k.a. "media fandom", "LJ fandom", "us fangirls", and "LJ-centered Western media fandom which reads Metafandom") is spawning all sorts of interesting discussion. There have been all sorts of distinctions made, among them:
- Demographics: mostly white men versus women with a more-proportional white:nonwhite ratio;
- Fanacs: LARPing, collecting, trivia, filk versus fanfic, meta, fanart, fanvids
- Primary location: conventions versus Internet
- Thinking style: linear versus hypertext
- Relationship with the PTB: worshipful with a side of "I'll be one someday" leading to a tendency to side with them, friendly, officially-sanctioned versus neutral or adversarial, resistive to attempts at commercialization, and little interest in becoming a PTB
- Attitude towards fanacs: commercially viable and potentially career-launching versus fun and non-commercial amateur hobby
- Attitude towards canon: love or hate, but don't criticize, only fixable by fanwank, only one canon versus love and hate, criticize even your favorite shows if they deserve to be, fixable by fanfic, multiple canons
(Note that this is about the overall culture, not individuals by any means. There's far too much overlap for this to be at all a useful metric on the individual level.)
These differences lead to larger differences like the Scary Ponies Oh No dismissing activities, like fanfiction, associated with the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh, often either because it's not being used as a launching point for a career (because the path from consumer to creator is so much a part of Scary Ponies Oh No expectations, if you stop midway, you're not an amateur, you're a failure); because it's perceived as trying to "fix" or, worse, redo canon and is thus an insult to the PTB; because it's a girl thing; or some combination of the preceding.
(Or, just thought of this, the tendency of Scary Ponies Oh No to bring their "squee, not critique" attitude to bear on themselves, so there are a lot of celebrations of fannishness but not so much introspection of what it means to be a Scary Pony Oh No or what needs to be improved or fixed. There tends to be a lot of "what do we do about the graying of fandom" hand-wringing, but also a marked resistance to any kind of change within fandom, without which young people are less likely to be interested. [Have you seen the SFWA website?] And not many discussions of things like sexism, homophobia, racism, and so on within fandom--whenever people do try to bring it up, the reaction of "we're not like that!" or "if we are, it doesn't matter!" or "we are like that and it matters, but there's nothing we can do about it but wait for the Old Guard to die off" is strong. Whereas one of the defining features of the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh is a tendency toward introspection and self-critique; that's what Metafandom is for, after all: discussions of fandom, like this one.)
One of the points I made was
I think it is also worth noting that (it seems to me that, standard disclaimers apply) Scary Ponies Oh No expect a greater degree of homogeneity of interests outside the obviously fannish. I.e.: cats, computers, chocolate, RenFaire and/or D&D (or GURPS or whatever), a passing familiarity at least with Morris dancing, anti-Microsoft, &c. I'm not really sure what the equivalents for Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh would be; it's my perception that we're (much?) more likely to be liberal or leftist in some way, while Scary Ponies Oh No have a higher degree of libertarianism, and certainly if nothing else Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh fandom as a whole seems to expect anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobic, &c. sentiment.
to which
aamcnamara repliedI think that the Pretty Princess Monsters Blargh also (to a certain degree) are anti-Microsoft--there are definitely expectations, just different ones. Like you, though, I am not certain exactly what those are.
So, lest this question get lost in the larger discussion: what expectations do we (Western media fandom as found on LJ and other journaling services, and united with such communities as Metafandom, Fandom_Wank, Fandom_Secrets, and so on) have of each other that are not related to fandom but that are not expectations we would have for humanity at large?
I'll start, adding to my comment above: I think that we have a tendency to expect each other to have some familiarity (even if only in passing, through reading each other's meta and reaction posts and out-of-fandom fic) with particular source texts that have or had large fandoms, e.g., Xena: Warrior Princess, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel: the Series, Firefly, the Sentinel, the Man From UNCLE, Stargate: Atlantis and Stargate: SG-1, Harry Potter, Doctor Who and Torchwood, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Star Trek, Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, and more recently Merlin, Supernatural, and Dollhouse. Not necessarily be fannish about, not necessarily have seen the canon for, but at least have heard of it and maybe have some knowledge of what it's about, main character names, &c.
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I guess if I was making a fannish assumptions list for Libs fans, I would assume things like a general knowledge of Britpop, the Boosh, Nevermind the Buzzcocks...those things would be our shared fannish heritage. There are people who used to write Libertines fic who now write bandom, but I think that bandom overall has more in common with the larger media fic fandoms than Libertines fandom itself does. I was just talking a bit on my flist about differences brought up by a conversation with a friend who writes both, and Libs fic tends to be much more independent and less collaborative. Long, drawn-out WIPs are common, AUs are common, we're very OTP Peter/Carl, and things like fic fests/challenges/prompts just don't happen in our fandom. It's smallish and people go off and write their stories - in some cases for years, like me - and they post chapters as they're ready and people discuss them in the comments and that's it as far as the fic part of fandom goes. It's quite cozy and relaxed.
Funnily enough, I don't know that we've even ever had a discussion of what to do with the girls. There are a few fics that have involved Kate Moss or Lisa Moorish (Peter's son's mother) or Carl's ex-girlfriend, but as a community it's so focused on the Peter/Carl relationship that generally they don't much enter the picture, and no one's seemed bothered one way or the other. I have used them in some of my AUs, including two of the ones I'm writing right now.
Anyway, I've gone way off the original topic and into a more specific discussion of my fandom, but you did twig a bit as to why, although I've found Metafandom interesting, it's also always kind of bothered me. I don't really expect it to be all inclusive, particularly of fandoms where meta really isn't going on, but I hope people do realize that just because some fandoms aren't making a lot of noise, they do still exist.
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It's interesting! ;-)
The idea of limiting the original discussion to expectations in Metafandom-centric (not sure how to put that) fandom(s) was to capture the culture that exclusiveness creates and homogenizes. Less contact between FPF and Libertines fandom --> less shared culture, was the assumption.
Not that the fandom I'm familiar with is the One True Fannish Way or anything, but more like, at least we're all walking on the same stretch of road, so it makes a bit more sense to give each other directions and discuss road quality with each other rather than with the travelers on a different road entirely, even if we're all going to the same place. (Um. That metaphor kinda got out of hand. Am I making any sense?)
But expectations and assumptions for other fandoms is also interesting! For instance, I now know what bands and genres I need to become familiar with if I ever must impersonate a Libertines fan! (Also *cough* I now know there is a band called "the Libertines". *has no music knowledge--no, seriously, the Who is aptly named for me*)
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Hee, I can't imagine in what situation you'd need to impersonate a Libs fan, although I think I'm on record at immigration in the U.K. as being a Pete Doherty fan, which may create its own set of issues when I fly there on Thursday. The band as such doesn't exist anymore (please visit Wikipedia for a condensed version of the sordid soap opera tale), although Peter and Carl and Gary played together recently and they've hinted at a reunion next year. Well, Carl's hinted. Peter's said flat-out that it's happening. Should it happen, I will be on the first plane over (Peter's not allowed in the U.S., sadly, so I must travel to see him, which I've done twice now).
After I commented here I was trying to think of what sort of things we all have in common in our fandom, and it's hard! Libs fans are a very diverse bunch. I mean, I came out of Buffy fandom, and my beta is a big Buffy fan, but I have another friend in the fandom who'd never seen the show. It is a fandom heavily populated by people from the U.K., so points of reference do tend to be U.K.-centric. I also find that for many of the older participants in the fandom it's their first fandom or at least the first in which they've been actively engaged in producing and reading fic, while the younger ones are more likely to have at least read fic for some fandom before. A brief survey on my journal reveals previous involvement in Harry Potter, X-Files, and bandom, and I also have a lot of friends in the fandom who I would say were heavily involved in band fandoms (Manic Street Preachers is a common one), including participating in online forums/messageboards, but not in any sort of fic fandoms for those bands. Also, I would say the older fandom members are more likely to be involved in writing in other ways. In fact, a group of Libs slash ladies is involved with putting together an online literary magazine, which I'm sure they won't mind me pimping here. It's really good. http://vagabondagepress.com/
Oh, and we're pretty much all lefty-liberal types. If anyone went to the Love Music Hate Racism Carnival in London last year, chances are you gave a donation to a volunteer who's involved in Libs fandom.